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I'm looking to buy a U-Matic machine for archival transfers. I have a JVC CR-850 so far, and now I'm looking for something that will play "hi band" and "SP" recordings.Will a BVU-950 play more than the SP standard? It would be great to find a machine that would play all 3...is there such a thing? By the way, I'm in NTSC land.Thanks for any info.
Hi all,
Does anyone know if the Canon lens J12-10B KRSM is a broadcast lens or a professional lens?
Cheers,
Rein
Hi Guy,
Is the Sony VO 9800 or 9850 sold in NTSC? If so, these models playback Lo-band, High-band and SP.
Rein
From my recollection there is no hiband NTSC U-matic. The BVU 200 machines were virtually the same as the VO 2850 models in the USA and Japan, whereas the PAL machines were hi and lo band respectively. I can remember that when there were standards conversions to be performed from NTSC U-matic to PAL you could always play the NTSC tapes from a 5030 multistandard low band player.
Thanks for all the info on high band....I thought I was losing my mind here in NTSC land, since I'd never heard of anything but "regular" and SP..and I've been in video for 40 years!I'm now looking for a BVU-950 for sure.Guy
Hi Dean
I've tried to email you ref the BVU 800 front panel, but it is always returned as unsendable. Sorry but the panel has already been delivered to the isle of Wight.Regards, John
Oh well John, some you win, some you lose... How was your trip to the Isle Of Wight?What's the weather like in Yorkshire? I understand that it has been p-----ng down in Peterborough. Have you been down there lately for a Burger King? Who was that producer chap Edward Somethingorother? What happened to him?
RegardsDean
Hi folks. I'm looking for a service manual for the Sony DXC-M3AP and the DXC-3000AP. Does anyone have a scan at hand, a place to go on the internet or maybe willing to sell? Photocopies would be fine too. Thanks.
I have 9 60 min U-matic sony tapes to transfer to CD for work purposes. I dont have access to a machine. Where or who can I contact that is able to convert the tapes. You can mail me at work as well, [email protected].
All information is appreciated.
i bought from a guy flexisign 7.5v4 pro, i got the crack with but the software after 1-2 minuter if no action stoped working and tell me i got a corrupted file and need to reinstall the soft, but the guy who sell me the soft there a special way to install it, i just patch the crack file, but he suppose to give me the installation instruction to do it, but never respond me, so if somebody know those way to insatll software can give me a sign plz
Hi,
Due to workshsop clearout I've a couple of SONY VO-2860Plooking for homes...anyone out there have any idea whatthey're worth ?
Thanks,John
I'm interested in purchasing a VO-9850 or 9800 in good condition. Does anyone know if other companies manufacture U-matic Machines?
Hi There,
Is there anyone here in the UK who could transfer about 4 low band tapes to VHS for a small sum?, you are of course welcome to the tapes after the copying!
If anyone would like to get in touch, please e-mail me but take the 123 bit out.
I also have a selection of small/big hi/lo band tapes of various lengths, all nice condition and used only once or twice £1 each. Email for list.
Thanks in advance folks
Louis:-)
Albert, nobody makes U-matic machines any more. There were some attempts by JVC and Panasonic to manufacture them, but the only ones that worked properly were the Sony machines, and they invented the format. As these machines can be obtained nowadays at little or no cost, there is no point in considering anything else.
ww
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Hi All - In response to Louis' question I thought I'd put my marketing hat on to offer VT transfer services (normally I'm just here as fan of retro VTRs). I work for The JMS Group Limited in Norwich, we can do dubs to/from all varieties of PAL U-matic and Betacam SP to clean/BITC VHS or authored DVD-R at MUCH better rates than a Soho dubs company. Drop me an email if you want any more info...
Tom Mountfordwww.jms-group.com
sasha?
Raja, don't waste your time promoting Feng-Shui on this site. The average home where U-matic is a hobby or even a means of earning an income is at best covered in cables and unsightly racks full of equipment and at worst looks like my place, with big VTR's hanging out of every space available and even the stairs need to be negotiated with caution. Try the girls at "Ideal Homes".
Hello,
I search a manual for a Sony VO-9600 or 9800/9850.
Yoo everyone i have a question. I have a ntsc tv/ntsc ps2/ i need a wire/cable/box to convert my pal games to ntsc. when i play pal games on my ps2 it works fine but the screen flickers a lot and its black and white. anyone know of a converter box or wire cable besides scart cable cause i dont have a scart plug. i have an old 1998 tv. please e-mail me at [email protected] or somethjing thanks
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Camera SONY DXC 1820P For Sale!!! /in operation!!! but out of work :)))/Price by set on fire :))))actually, I want to get rid...
Can anyone help. I need a service manual for a EVV-9000P Hi-8 back end recorder, or just the circuit diagrams of the DM boards and RP board.
I need to price a Sony Umatic Video Cassette player vp5000, and a Sony Video Cassette Recorder vo5850, If someone could please assist me it would be greatly apreciated. thanx:)
Hi Roger - The VP5000 is probably about £150 and the VO5850 about £250 - but those prices are really what a pro video dealer would ask (not what most people would be willing to pay) take a look on ebay and both would likely be available for under £100.
All the best,Tom
Hi, Friends,, Can any body tell me VO5630 machine is HI band or LOW band.Thanks
Hello.
I've got a Sony VO 5630 machine and I wonder if there's any syncing options to my midi timepiece so that I can send/recieve timecode?
Thank you!
Hiya - The 5630 is a low-band machine.
Jimmy - if the audio is mono use the left hand track to drop timecode in and just use the right channel for audio. There is a dub facility for the left hand audio (provided for voice-overs)so that you can insert the TC on the left track without disturbing the video / right hand audio tracks.
I have a gml merlin-x dve (dual channel tbc) for sale, want to sell it quick, at a reasonable price also a sony dme 450, to be sold under the same conditions.
regards jojo
Hi . my son has just been given a sony dxc m3a, anybody out there with a manual or info on it, and power supply . completly ignorant help thanks
is there a way of removing the macro code on a lite-on dvd recordable dvd the trouble I am having is when recording some of my old video's to dvd I get an flashing white stripe under the picture
Hi All - Can anyone tell me pretty sharpish if the VP5040 had a 9-pin RS232 like the later Series-7 machines... I need to make a purchasing decision rather fast!
Thanks in advance! - Tom.
Do you mean like this one Tom?http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3319&item=3840104536&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Hiya Dave - What a small world, that's the one I was thinking of bidding on! It seems that the Series 9 machines have RS232... shame because that 5040 sold rather cheap! I'll keep my eyes peeled for a higher spec one. I'm after one because we do quite a bit of work for London ad-agencies, who all still like to bring U-matic tapes for reference at recording sessions and absolutely swear by it.
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I've just bought a Sony VO 8800P portable Umatic VCR. Where can I buy DC cables and batteries for this VCR?
Gonzo - you need two NP1A batteries, have a look on ebay or try a search on ask.co.uk. DC power cord can be made up with a Cannon XLR 4 pin female plug and any 2A 13.5v DC PSU. Make sure you get the polarity right or you will be scrapping the 8800!
Gonzo, there are a dozen NP1A batteries here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3319&item=3841359636&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Thank you to both of you. I am now on the trail of NP 1A batteries (£95.00 new!!!) but it looks like the power supply to the VTR is going to have to be made for me, unless anyone knows where you can buy one.
gonzo, you might try re-wiring a Sony SL-F1 charger. Those are Betamax power supplies, but if you cut off the plug and replace it with a standard 4-pin XLR type, you get a free NP-1 charger with it :-)
I've got one this way. Be creative.
Hi I recently bought a motorola v220 picture phone and I can't down load my picture's from my v220 phone to my computer I have windows xp so could you please send me some info on how to do so.
Padraig - Can you not read? This is a chat page about a 1970s videotape format... not the fountain of all world knowlege! Sorry to moan but what is is about people who post totally unrelated drivel on these pages?
Well, Tom, I think I would sooner see postings like Padraig's appearing on the site rather than the other idiot trying to promote sex sites etc. At least the question carries a video related theme! P.S. Padraig, I haven't got a clue.....
Since you nice folks have been so helpful to Gonzo, try this one. I have inherited a Panasonic F10 video camera with a male 10 PIN output plug to the VTR and a Sony 8800 P portable Umatic VTR with a 14 pin female input from the camera. No cable! Is there a cable I can buy or have made, or an adaptor or camera accessory which will enable me to have the camera work with this VTR? Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Stephen, if you don't have the pin-outs already, I think you can find the Panasonic one at http://www.geocities.com/vk3rtv/camcon.html and the Sony one at http://www.rcrowley.com/SonyPinout.htm
Success! Anyone else who wants a 14 pin to 10 pin cable, look here : http://www.dvwarehouse.com - 14-Pin Male to 10-Pin Female Sony CCJQ Cable 10 Foot Model: E14M-E10F-10 : Camera to VTR Cables Equivalent to Sony CCJQ. $89.00, so probably going to be about the £60 mark with postage. Now all I need is a battery charger for NP1 batteries ...
HI I AM NEW TO THE GAME OF U-MATICS. AND WONDER IF SOME KIND PERSON WOULD GIVE ME SOME HELP I HAVE PURCHASED SOME EQUIPMENT THAT INCLUDED A SONY VO7630 AND A SCAN DO1024 COMPUTER TO VIDEO SCAN CONVERTOR, BOTH ITEMS ARE IN 1st CLASS CONDITION AND WERE ONLY USED IN A BOARD ROOM OF A LARGE WELL KNOWN BREWERY. I DO NOT HAVE A CLUE ON THERE WORTH OR WHERE TO SELL THEM, ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT THANKS BRIAN EDINBURH.
It turns out that VDC Productions in London can make the 14 to 10 pin cable. It remains to be seen if it will be cheaper than buying one from the US ($125.00, more or less). Now, the £64.00 question - how do I run two Panasonic F10s from one Sony 8800P Umatic VTR?
Anders, I've been told that Y/C on U-Matic uses another frequency carrier than Y/C as we know it from S-VHS recorders. However, I do have a time base corrector (the iden ivt-7p)that has "s-video" style and a "dub" style inputs. More intresting is that they are hardwired to the same pins on the circuit board. So chances are it works. I'm not sure if the TBC is electronically auto-switching or something. Anyway... just my $0.02
stephen, just ask VDC to make some sort of 'extra lead' coming out of the convertor lead. If you're having a cable made anyway... you might just as well ask for a custom cable :)
Stephen - I didn't answer your email because you had already found a cable (per your posting). If you are going to run two F10 cameras, you won't need one. You need a vision and audio mixer with the output from the mixer connected to the line in BNC connector on the VTR. The cameras will genlock from the burst reference on the mixer. You need one of those little portable mixers which will run off a 12v supply, like an electrocraft or similar.
I am still interested in buying/having someone make a 14 pin male to 10 pin female cable - the cash is burning a hole in my pocket. However, you'll have to beat the US quote of US$122 including delivery. In fact I want all sorts of cables ffor a Sony VO 8800 P Umatic VTR - anyone got these for sale, let me know.
Hello, have a BVU-950P (HB/SP U-MATIC edit deck) with TBC,DNR (Digital Noise Reducer) and Timecode options. 500 Head hours,nice clean machine. Ideal for transfer of archive material. Looking for £595, or hire available.
Hi folks. Just bought a JVC CR-4700U, a top loader. I'm new to the whole Umatic thing. The power connector is some four-pin thing that I don't recognize; does anyone know how to supply power to this machine? Even a wiring diagram would help, I could open the thing up and wire up power myself....
Thanks in advance,Rob McLendon
Oop, I just realized its a portable model, and it's battery powered.So my new question is: does anyone know where to get batteries and a charger for this machine?
Hehe.-Rob
I have put several U-matic service and operation manuals on eBay:
VO-5850 - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3844045396&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
BVU -800 - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3844048150&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:AU:1
VO-5630 - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3844046741&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:AU:1
Any questions, just remove all numbers from my email address. Roderick
For anyone interested: there are some head drums for sale on ebayVO-9850, VO-5850, BVU-100, BVU -200 / 800,
Check on ebay.com in category Cameras & Photo > Professional Video Equipment > Other
Other items are on ebay.com.au in category Cameras & Accessories > Video Cameras & Accessories > Professional Video
Cheers
Steve
REPLACEMENT HEAD DRUMS:
For anyone interested there are some head drums for sale on ebayVO-9850P, VO-5850P,VO-2850P, BVU-100P, BVU-200P/800P,
Check on ebay.com in category Cameras & Photo > Professional Video Equipment > Other
Other items are on ebay.com.au in category Cameras & Accessories > Video Cameras & Accessories > Professional Video
sorry about the duplicate posting.. but I just realised I could make lifeeasier for anyone interested in those heads. Listing are on the following links:
BVU-200P/800P - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3842890531&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
BVU-100P - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3842890545&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
VO-2850P - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3842891376&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
VO-5850P - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3842892612&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
VO9850P - http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3842890539&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
If you need to get in touch please add the M to the end of my email address!
Steve
I have been running a 3 camera setup (old gear) for concert style presentations with live bands for youth work (Its my hobby?). One camera, a JVC KY15, has started to develop flickering lines in viewfinder and to video out. I have little knowledge and wonder if anybody knows whats wrong and if it is repairable. I am not a professsional and do this video stuff to relax!!!. I have become fasinated with video cameras and love the site. All the best to everyone.
Brian - sounds like a dry joint - could be difficult to trace on the board. The camera is not worth too much, so a repair at a dealer could be expensive. Might be an idea to buy a good seconhand from someone like MVS; http://www.mvsvideo.co.uk/equipmentindex.htm or keep an eye on ebay.
Robert, pin 1 is 12 volt negative, pin 4 is 12 volt positive. Preferably 13 volts or so.
Hi. Several items for disposal:DXCM7 camera + lens, Immaculate, transit case, cable, little use £ 800. BVU110P GWO, offers.BVU50P GWO, offers.VO8800P, slight fault on 1 audio channel, offers.Also 2xBVU200P + BVE500 edit suite, working, offers.
Isn't there an administrator for this site? Don't they patrol the chatroom and remove stuff like this?
Well, there is moderator(s). They can not do 24/7 but if You think they need an alert call (I have done this once in the past), look around at palsite and You will find the contact info. I am not going to paste it here. Until the big sweep just ignore the crap posts and keep up the u-matic spirit.
What is the red warning light on the Sony VO 8800 P portable Umatic VTR all about? Every time I put in a twenty minute tape it comes on and the whole system stops dead.
I may be purchasing a Sony CCD-V200E Video Camera. Does anyone think £100 is a little expensive or reasonable? I understand they are quite old.
I want to buy an instruction book for a Sony VO 8800 P portable Umatic video recorder. Photocopy would be fine. Sorry, I don't know what the red warning light means either!
Stephen - looks like tape slack. Possible cause, underpowered lace up, batteries flat, pinch roller sticking etc. Take the lid off and see if the lace-up is going through all the functions.Gonzo - I see you got the batteries off ebay - any good?
Hi All - I've recently purchased a VO9850 off ebay for playback in voice-to-picture sessions. It seems decent enough despite the hours meter being almost off the scale. My five-year old Beta SP has 390 hours on the drum, this U-matic has 8500 - yet it's glitching only a little more than my other Series-9 which only has 4 hours on the clock. At what point do the heads just give up? Can the clock be wrong - i.e. the heads be replaced but the clock not reset?
Also, on power-up the video input starts off black and gradually returns in bursts over the course of an hour or so (though the video input level is registering an incoming signal all the time) Once it's fully online again there is a minor issue when unplugging/replugging the video input whilst in playback - this causes the tape speed to 'wow' slightly and the servo light to flicker then stabilise. So, the playback side is fine, but the video input seems to come and go - any ideas?
Thanks, Tom.
I posted a message before. I may be purchasing a Sony CCD-V200E Video Camera. Does anyone think £100 is a little expensive or reasonable? I understand they are quite old. I'm just wondering if I should get it or not.
Yes, I got the batteries; they seem fine, the little battery meter pops right up when I turn the VTR on, but I haven't got a tape (yet) to test the whole system out. Buying some from Stanley Productions in Soho on Friday. Also as I have no charger and (I assume) these batteries have been stored for a while they will have to discharged and recharged before they will do the business properly. I have two chargers on the way from the US and as soon as I get them I will fire the whole system up. News as it happens. Film at eleven.
Gonzo - if you are getting equipment from the USA make sure it is either universal voltage or the input voltage selector is set to 240v. The mains voltage in the USA is 110v!
Hi All, am posting this one again as it got pushed into 'archive messages' by the thousands of lines of crap about bootleg software someone posted!
I've recently purchased a VO9850 off ebay for playback in voice-to-picture sessions. It seems decent enough despite the hours meter being almost off the scale. My five-year old Beta SP has 390 hours on the drum, this U-matic has 8500 - yet it's glitching only a little more than my other Series-9 which only has 4 hours on the clock. At what point do the heads just give up? Can the clock be wrong - i.e. the heads be replaced but the clock not reset?
Also, on power-up the video input starts off black and gradually returns in bursts over the course of an hour or so (though the video input level is registering an incoming signal all the time) Once it's fully online again there is a minor issue when unplugging/replugging the video input whilst in playback - this causes the tape speed to 'wow' slightly and the servo light to flicker then stabilise. So, the playback side is fine, but the video input seems to come and go - any ideas?
Thanks, Tom.
I now about the 100/240 flapdoodle. An engineer I work with buys kit like masonry drills on Ebay from the US and buys 'step down' transformers from Maplins for a few quid and superglues them to the plugs. I had him check out the chargers and he says they will be fine. However, in three or four weeks, if every light in London goes off, you know he got it wrong ...
Tom - the input on most hiband VCR's is also the reference signal unless you have a burst signal attached to the external sync in. Even then the selector should be set to external sync. This is causing the flutter when you disconnect the input signal.
We search 4 Upper Drum for BVU SP 850P
Thanks Roland - that also explains why I can't get the menus up until there's some video coming in.
Just out of interest do you, or anyone here, know what the difference is between a black-burst generator, a sync-pulse generator and a genlock? As I understand it 'black burst' is a video signal that lacks any image information but still carries timing and colour burst signals... I'm assuming an SPG is different as my Beta SP can't record composite video input without the picture rolling when provided with black-burst as a reference input... does an SPG need to go on my shopping list?
Tom, the drum hour meter in VO-98XX series is set to count up to 15 000 (fifteen thousand) hours. Your is just past the halfway point.
Hi there I have a Umatic SP recorder for sale. It is a Sony model VO 9850 SP . It is a PAL version machine. I am based in Portugal but will send worldwide ... anyone interrested then please make me a suitable offer !
Regards
Hi all - I just thought I'd let you know of a couple of items I'm selling personally on ebay.co.uk - seeing as they are of rather a specific interest, the first is a Quadruplex/2" VT take-up spool:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5725394430&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
The other is an Ianiro Studio 2K luminaire:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3845621794&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
I'm not going to sell outside ebay, I don't think it's fair to people placing bids but if you're interested please copy and paste the link in your browser and take a look.
Tom.
These idiots that clog up the board with non relevant postings such as embroidery software etc and then advertise their emails should be reported to the email service provider and see if the message gets through!
Hello all... a serious question. My high school's NTSC U-Matic vcr locked up when i put a standard U-Matic tape in. It's a JVC front loader, don't know the model number (they kicked me out before i could look!). It powers up and makes noise, but refuses any button presses and displays "3" next to "error". Can't seem to find the book on it... it's a JVC and I will get the model soonest i can.
DP@home
Joey - how high is your school? If it is very high, the solution is simple. You simply throw the JVC out of a 15th storey window (or higher). Then purchase a Sony 5850 or similar from Ebay at little cost (relative to the man hours that you would waste trying to fix the JVC). These chat forums are good, aren't they? You can get all the solutions to your problems in a flash, browse through all the latest embroidery software, buy industrial generator sets and get links to all the latest sex sites too!
Good Morning World !
Anyone out there know anything about the U Matic - JVC Recorder Model- CR6060E ?
I currently have one for sale on Ebay auction and don't know anything about them.
I am getting questions like : is it High Band or Low band ? PAL?
If you can assist me I would be very grateful.
Paul H. St Albans. Herts
Dean@home
It's low band
Dean@home
I also think it is PAL. The "E" denotes European spec.
Come on, Dean, just because you're pissed off that people are using the chat page to sell generators and embroidery software doesn't mean that you should stop using this page for its purpose: serious answers to serious questions. So, does any body know what to do with my school's JVC. It says 3 next to Error and I don't know what to do...
I'm new to the Ucatic scene but I have learned that even though the answer was somewhat unconventionally phrased it is pretty much true. For all we love its little cotton socks Umatic is obsolete technology and getting a dud VTR fixed will cost a couple of hundred quid. On the other hand you can pick up a good Sony VO 8000 P (like the one I got off eBay) for about £80.00. No contest. You might even be able to sell the dud on eBay for 'parts or repair', and you never know; you might break even.
Well, I may be unconventional, but Gonzo is right. Apart from that, JVC were the inventors of the VHS system which, because of their superior marketing strategy, banished Betamax (which was infinitely better than their system) from the home VCR market. The Betamax system was later to be evolved as Betacam, which was to become the industry standard for profesional studio systems, to which JVC could not hold a torch, and still is, in many countries. If you wish to persevere with trying to repair a JVC U-matic (a contradiction in terms), so be it. You won't get much assistance from dedicated followers of Sony's superior technology.
Hello everyoneI've got few odds and ends available all with low hours. This includes a JVC Portable lo band recorder a portable high band recorder PR4800E both with batteries chargers cables and kangaroo covers. I have a studio monitor Sony PSM1320P with rack mounts (very good), a JVC low band studio machine and a PR8800 High band machine plus another which requires some attention to lacing up servo. And the star prize is...wait for it... a Key West Video Cart which carries all the equipment anyone is ever likely to need! It has a built in chargeable power supply which produces enough power for a small village! There are lots of other bits and pieces with hundreds of cables, patch panels even an Autocue! The wife says if it doesn't go, I do and I'll miss the cat. All based in Bristol but will travel. Stupid offers only.
Since posting the above I've read the rave comments about JVC. It served me OK for yonks especially after I found the drop out compensator on the TBC. But is it true that you can actually find buyers for this crap on ebay? Should I try there?
Actually Dean's (unconventional) advice is good on three grounds. 1) There really is very little else you can do with a dud Umatic VTR. 2) It'll be fun. 3) If you take a stopwatch and you precisely measure the time from when you drop the beast to the time it hits the ground, you can then work out the height of the building, using the standard acceleration due to gravity of 9.8 metres per second squared.
Besides, my ex-wife might be walking past at the time. No, wait ... that's four.
I have a Sony DMR-4000 and PCM-1630 with error counter available, very low hours.Does anyone know what is worth and the best place to sell it?
Hi all! Just a quick enquiry about servicing... I can't justify spending large amounts of cash wrapping and shipping rather worthless equipment to the nearest service centre in Middlesex just to be told it's dead/spares are no longer available. I am on a quest to find a broadcast video engineer in Norfolk... or even BETTER in the NORWICH area... does anyone know if such a person exists?
Thanks!
DeanP@home
I think Norfolk is to Broadcast Engineers as Middlesex is to Sugar Beet Farmers,,,,
WantedToBeABroadcastEngineer@Middlesex
I resemble that remark!
Has anyone seen the Umatic PAL chatroom? I thought it was around here somewhere but apparently not ...
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